Facilitated by: Dr. Greg Nelson and Dr. Sue Eliason

Using PI's with Difficult Children


What do you do when the second stage, Connecting, fails?  How do you develop powerful interactions with children that challenge you?   Are children’s basic needs, such as sleep, nutrition, security, and exercise necessary preconditions to powerful interactions?

36 comments:

  1. Working in a classroom that focuses on behaviors, I know from first hand experience that not every technique will work the same with each child. We are big fans of trial and error. If connecting doesn't work, find a different approach. And yes, the basic needs are a tremendous factor in terms of connecting. Lacking any of the basic needs can result in irritability and present as an unwillingness to cooperate, nevermind connect.

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  2. Last year I had a child that came from a home with divorced parents and a negative school experience. He was very defensive and would go into screaming and crying episodes over social conflicts or when he didn't get his way. Teaching academics took a back seat until I gained this child's trust. It took a few months of initiating as many positive interactions as possible and helping him figure out how to handle social conflicts in an appropriate manner. He needed to be left alone after a difficult morning separation from Dad and when he was ready he could be given support (a hug, talking quietly). I always made sure I rubbed his back at rest time and that helped with bonding. Being a very physical child required that he was given ample time for gross motor activities. He loved when the teachers played basketball with him. He also needed reassurance that we liked him even after a crying episode. By the end of the year I was proud of the growth and progress he had made. When I heard him say "It doesn't matter if you win, you just try your best" I knew that the months of work had paid off.

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    1. A perfect example of how a single interaction isn't always as powerful as we hope it to be. It is tough for a child to go through so much separation- the divorce and then being brought to a school/daycare. The consistency offered can sometimes be more beneficial than an academic lesson and I'm glad to hear the child learned how to cope with the situation.

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  3. A child's basic needs being met are a critical piece in how their day goes. I have one child in my class, who I can tell right when she enters the preschool, how the day is going to go. Knowing and understanding each child, and what approach works best is most helpful when connecting to them. Even at difficult times, I remain patient and continue to try for a positive response from the child. I think their comfort level with me is an important piece too. My methods and approaches with each child are individualized so it's most effective for them.

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    1. I work with 8 3rd & 4th grade students who have all been through some kind of trauma in their lives- whether in and out of foster care, homelessness, impacted by drug use, horror stories of abuse- and I can absolutely agree that an individualized plan is far more effective than any generic approach can be. For some, yelling and public scenes can be an empowering motivator, others respond better to private pull outs, some through reading, some through listening, some require hand over hand directions (Those are not necessarily in a negative context.) They are all different and it takes reaching the individual, rather than the group, to have that PI.

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  4. I agree that we must connect with children before anything else can happen. One thing that helps in our school is our classroom pet. For some children it is easier to connect with an animal than it is with people. On more than one occassion I have had a child that has difficulty seperating or just connceting with others in general. For these children I have them feed the guinea pig as part of the mooring routine. This gives them something to look forward to and a sense of responability. It work with the animal is also very calming to most children and I can have that child help another child feed the guinea pig creating a connection between the two children. Trust is so important in powerful interactions and it seems that trust is created when bonding over an animal.

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    1. We have actually been pushing to get a classroom pet for our kids. Not only does it give a sense of responsibility, but often dependability. One of my students was recently reconnected with his biological mother after 4 years in foster homes and feels a burden to take care of her as if she is his responsibilty. A classroom pet would let him act on that need in a healthier and more suitable manner.

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  5. I too agree that a childs basic needs being met are very important to not only how that childs day will go but sometimes the entire center. One child disposition can snowball to all of the others. I see it alot with our almost 2 year olds. One can come in exhausted and unable to control themselves and set off some of the others. When we see this happening we try connect with that child as quickly as possible. As to what approach we use it depends on the child; some just need a big hug to start their day and others need more one on one for a longer period of time to get them back on track. But just being able to connect with a child and let them know that you are there for them can turn their day around.

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    1. Snowball days are the worst! It is very difficult to maintain order when we have "Acting Out Persons" in the time out room, the hallway, and attempting to carry on with the necessary lesson with so many side distractions.
      I actually had an extra student sent to my classroom for "time away" who proceded to attempt to create the unraveling of order. Fortunately, my students are very strong willed and did not give in to the pressure... this time.

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  6. In talking about basic needs two young children come to mind. I have a routine with each of them that I give them a hug as soon as I see them. It is interesting how much that small gesture affects their interactions with me for the day. One of them arrived at school this morning with Dad and came flying into my room and said "Diane!". The next thing I know I'm getting that big hug and then he ran back to say good bye to Dad. For each child, the initial needs of their day vary. Some they need time to observe before being approached while others need that slap five as soon as they enter the room. I guess one of the keys to being a good teacher and increasing your chances of Powerful Interactions is to figure out each child's needs and meet them the best you can.

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    1. The beginning is so important to the tone of the day. I have one student in particular who receives his "Breakfast," (code for medicine) just before getting on the bus to come to school. This child suffers from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and severe ADHD. When he arrives, he is generally off the wall. His daily routine has become entering and if any irritability or rudeness, he is to go straight into the time out room (its better when he cooperates!). Within 10 to 15 minutes, he has usually calmed himself to the point where he can rejoin the group and continue with an excellent day. Not taking the time away, typically leads to heightened agitation, disrespect, and often aggression. Kind of an extreme example, but shows how effective and necessary the routine can be.

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  7. I do not believe that having basic needs met is a precondition for powerful interactions to occur. We, as a society, and me personally are sleep deprived, fast food eating, and obese. This does not mean powerful interactions cannot happen. It just means they may be difficult at times to obtain. We all have off days, weeks, months, and/or years in some cases but we do the best we can with what we have and aim to reach our personal best whenever possible. We may never personally connect with every student or have a powerful interaction every day with every student. But we are all individuals who are different, unique, with varying and different perspectives based on life and/or ignorance at times. I know it sounds trite but if at first you don't succeed try, try, try again. As educators, we should all have a plan, then a plan b through z. There is no universal way to connect with each student until we find out what makes them who they are and then you have some common ground to make connections and have powerful interactions. It is possible and I don't believe the connection fails I believe the educator fails to try other ways. You can have powerful interactions with children that challenge you by talking to them, modelling, scaffolding, hugging, and/or a high five because at the end of the day a person's ultimate goal is to love and be respected and have love and be respected.

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    1. I really agree with this, as there are some children in particular situations that will never meet the basic needs due to their conditions at home. With these children, it is even more important to focus on what they do well, and praise, praise, praise them. We have no control over what happens outside of the classroom. Whether we have optimal conditions, i.e. a rested, fed, and loved child, or the opposite, it is our job to never stop looking for a way to create positive interactions with our students.

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    2. Stephanie I love the sound of plan B through Z! Yes we do need to be flexible in dealing with behavior issues and never never give up. These kids have had many people stop trying to understand what they are trying to tell us. Behavior is communication. They are trying to tell us something is wrong. We have to be the detectives to answer the whys and there is no better way to finding out than through 1 on 1 PI's.

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  8. I think PI with a difficult child on a learning level would need to come after developing a sense of trust with him/her. It may be easier if all of their basic needs are met. It is a plus if you are able to get information from the parents and work together.

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    1. Sometimes you find the difficulty with the child stems directly from a difficult parent that causes that influece and even worse, encourages it.
      I think developing that trust begins with the environment and atmosphere we create- structure that shows what is and is not acceptable. From there, we can continue with our attempts at PI's

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  9. In America the land of the free, children are hungry, homeless and sleep deprived and so on and so on....I do not agree that children only learn if their basic needs are met. That is a fairy tale theory because children can learn being deprived of basic needs on a daily occurance. Purposeful Interactions occur because of humanity to meet childrens needs and the education we have as teachers to serve all children to have" Purposeful Interactions." If a child is hungry and cannot learn because of it . Feed the child and then begin the Purposeful Interaction or was that the Purposeful Interaction? I say, yes!

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    1. We can't conrol every aspect of our students/children's/clients lives. All we can do is control the experience we offer. One of my students comes from a very rough neighborhood and a family heavily involved in gang violence. For his own safety, we are encouraged not to say "It is not okay to hit or use physical aggression," but rather, "It is not okay to hit or use physical aggression IN SCHOOL."

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  10. Children can learn even if their basic needs are not met but it is much harder to connect with them and develop a powerful interaction if you don't know what is causing their issues. This is when I think communication with the parents would be most helpful. Many parents just drop their kids off in the morning and do not let you know that their child was up all night or that they haven't been eating well all weekend so we play the guessing game as to why a child may be acting the way they are when it could be as simple as needing a nap or just having something to eat. As Stephanie said we as adults deprive ourselves of may things and can function but I think the difference is that we know why we feel/act the way we do but kids don't always realize why they do, when it may be just basic needs; needing to be met.

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    1. Couldn't agree more, Susan. It is very helpful when parents give the heads up over potential stressors that come into play like not getting breakfast or "breakfast", arguments, lack of sleep and any other factors that if we know about can very easily make the necessary accomodations to benefit and have a PI with that child. Just guessing usually just adds to our stress level!

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    2. I also agree with you Susan. We as adults are able to not only understand why we feel and act the way we do, we are able to regulate ourselves and communicate those deficiencies to others. Children are not developmentally sophisticated enough to assess, evaluate and explain how they are feeling to others. I can remember my son as a child, would seem to confuse his feeling hungry with feeling tired. I can remember times when he would tell me he was hungry after just eating a great meal, when I knew he was really ready to drop because he was exhausted! It is hard sometimes for adults to be able to regulate themselves through the day when they are sleep deprived, hungry or had a bad morning at home, let alone children! We do it when necessary but we have had a lot more practice then a young child. Having the heads up from a parent on what need may not have been met at home can help us with how we can help address that need. In doing so, we are more likely able and to help the child's day be more enjoyable and help them to increase their PI's with others.

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  11. I care for a now 4 year old girl that is what I would consider a difficult child. As a 2 year old she hit, pushed and bit the other children. She grew out of that to now use her words to hurt others instead. Her mother and I have many conversations about her behavior. I try and have powerful interactions with her but truthfully she is so demanding of attention that she wants these all day. She is extremely bright so I try and meet her demands with challenges but then she will tell others that she knows her letters and they don't. You can sit with her one on one and she will tell you how to be a good friend but she can't seem to act on it on her own. Any suggestions??

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    1. Jeanne,
      I don't have much experience working with children so young, but perhaps some tips that work with 7-9 year olds may help.
      Compliment Circles- everyone takes turns saying nice things.
      Role Playing- revisit some situations and act out better solutions than hitting or being mean and nasty.
      The Good Friend Test- this is a harsh one, but have the children gather in a circle, and go over what makes someone a good friend, then by show of hands vote on who they think is a good friend. For some its a real eye opener, for others it can be a motivation for revenge, but I work with more extreme cases.

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    2. I love your idea of a "compliment circle" Jim! Bringing positive and offering validating affirmations to others is a great way to build a caring community. Also doing a compliment circle for their own selves would be a great way for them to build on their own self esteem... an "I like me because I am....". I always want to try and reinforce our children's belief in themselves that they are a good person so I often will say to a child... "You must be so proud in your heart for..." instead of saying that I am proud of them.

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    3. The compliment circle is a great idea, Jim. What a great way to teach children empathy for others and to think about others. I also like your idea, Eileen. The "I like me because I am.." activity gives the children an opportunity to see themselves as someone special and having something important to offer the classroom and family communities.

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  12. For my weekend job, I work at the Walker School for kids with emotional and behavioral issues. I have been working there for over 15 years and I run the campus on the weekends. One of my main functions is to help the staff and children when the the group of individual children become escalated. One of the most important things when dealing with the kids is to really know them and build connections with them. It is crucial to de-escalate them when you know them and what makes them tick (their interests, etc). The other piece that is crucial is really building relationships with them in which they trust you and know that you can help and will help them get back on track. That you have their best interest in mind and that you really care. Sometimes the little things like a smile and your body language goes along way.


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    1. De-escalating can be tough. That connection with the students becomes that much more important when working with the EI and Behavioral population.

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  13. I work in a Head Start program and many of the children have challenging behaviors and are exposed to sleep deprivation(living in motels, shelters or transient living arrangements), definate nutrition issues at home due to substance abuse, lack of finances, etc. ,security(you can imagine) and exercise (living in unsafe outdoor environments). When you can connect with these little ones, it is an amazing and wonderful experience to help them. It takes persistence to gain their trust since often times these children don't trust adults. I believe consistency is the key. I believe children want consistency and security, they want to be able to trust adults and feel safe. It is important to not give up on them and continue trying to approach them using the PI techniques found in this book. Recently we had a little girl in our class who was exhibiting a lot of difficult behaviors. We were successful in getting her parents to obtain counseling for her. We are lucky we do have an in-house counselor in our program. We have been trying to connect with her usingPI and she is becoming more open to our suggestions and her behavior toward her peers is becoming more positive. We are still in the initial stages, but I am optimistic about helping her and hopefully she will be able to continue with positive outcomes. Reading the book has re-enforced and refreshed my own beliefs about helping children with challenging behaviors.

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    1. So glad to hear of what will hopefully be a success story! Persistence can be tough, but it means so much to the kids that really need our TLC.

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  14. A previous book discussion selection, Unsmiling Faces, had us look at ways to bring damaged children back from the brink. Dreikurs talks about the four causes of misbehavior, the last two of which are entrenched and hard to dislodge: Revenge and Giving Up. We have all had children who are so angry with the world or so down on themselves that they massively disrupt the classroom and actively sabotage our efforts to reach out to them. The key is not to buy into their definition, but rather to persistently communicate a different vision of who they are and the world they can be a part of. Easier said than done. But another anecdote I've heard Janine Fitzgerald tell of a hellion of a child she was called upon to work with. She would escort him to the bus everyday, after a horrific day at the program, and say to him with a big smile on her face: "I'm really looking forward to seeing you tomorrow." That child was transformed.

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    1. So important to have every day be a new day. Clean Slate. Consequences can carry over, but never our aggravation or dismay! I think I'll have to go find this book.

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  15. Just a thought on connecting challenging behaviors,assessments and PI's. I believe in behaviors being a form of communication and it's a part of our job to figure out what that behavior is saying and how it is rewarded. In other words assessment. It never should be limited to academics or just done through observation. As you assess do you let that child know "There is nothing more important right now than you." Perhaps we can do both at once. We can learn more about those behaviors by observing and tracking things such as time of day of an occurance, environment, activity etc. but we can also have those special interactions as we get to know that child and their needs through quality time. Perhaps you have the missing piece of support that child is telling you they need, perhaps a team approach is needed. Your public school offers comprehensive testing to evaluate what their needs are. The results of many focussing on that child is powerful! Don't try to solve it all yourself, get the support you need.
    As far as basic needs not being met, I agree when a child is in survival mode learning is impacted. We can only control what happens within our classroom, not what happens when the child goes home. Pam your experiences in Head Start are profound. Those children are lucky they have you who understands. Often times the youngest in the family are the ones to let us all know something is not right. We need to listen to behaviors and develop trust in these children. I loved this quote on pg 58 "Children experience your attention and guidance as a caring embrace holding everything together. They know you're on their team."

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    1. Theresa, I agree that many behaviors can be seen as a form of communication and yes, it is absolutely up to us to assess the necessary need being requested by the behavior. At the same time, such a task can be difficult when the result is that the child is not acting out because they want or need something, but rather because they come from a home culture in which such behavior has been found acceptable and the reason is for such behavior is simply being a brat.
      Such a discovery can be a powerful divider and become a strong factor that makes us less willing, if not entirely unwilling, to establish a relationship that leads to the Powerful Interaction.

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  16. All children are individuals with unique needs and qualities. I think a connection or powerful interaction comes when you connect with a child organically. It can’t be a forced thing. I feel there are some children you seem to connect with quickly; while others take longer, or perhaps the connection never comes. (Just like with adults!) The lack of eye contact that is often associated with a child with autism can make you feel like a PI is not ever happening. But, I’d like to think it is. Perhaps we don’t know what our impact or connection is at times. It may be more powerful than we think!

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  17. Working in a Head Start program we have had over the years seen many children with difficult behaviors. We can’t change the environment the children come from we can only change the environment in our classroom. First we have to communicate with the child to help them verbalize what their behavior is. Kicking, screaming throwing toys at clean up time etc. When we can get the child to come up with a solution with us like asking for one more minute to play it’s very powerful. It’s always critical to have ongoing conversation with parents involving them in problem solving telling them what works at school and they in return telling us what works at home.
    We have a situation currently at our center where the other 2 classrooms are enduring children with some very violent behaviors. One classroom has 2 boys. Every day when the children in my class leave I go to that classroom to see these 2 boys. They are always happy to see me. I’m a new face and for the most part I don’t know how their day has been so it’s a clean slate. We talk a little about their day. The teachers report to me that the children look forward to this and will ask when I’m coming to see them.I find that I also look forward to the few moments I spend with them and hope it gives a positive highlight to their day.

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  18. I think it's more of a challenge to connect with children when they're tired or hungry but I believe it can happen with a lot of patience and "plans b through z" ( I like the term, Stephanie.) Our number one job is to provide an environment and program where the child is and feels safe.
    If you know that a child is hungry, then provide him with a small snack. If he's tired, then offer quiet activities like reading a story, doing a puzzle, or drawing a picture.
    You know yourself, when you're tired or hungry, it's more difficult to focus on a task or have a conversation with someone. More so with children. We must find out what the child's immediate needs are before we can try to connect with them.

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